Hi Everyone, I can't believe I'm not alone!

[CheleRose]

Hi,

Color me sooo happy to find people that aren't going to tell me to just take pills and I will magically feel all better! Wow, such mixed emotions...hate that you all are having these tough things to deal with, but glad that I have others that understand me now. I look forward to meeting you all. I hope as I learn about all of this, I can help others as well on this journey.

I had an oophorectomy in 2002, my heart would not be happy with any kind of hrt so had to stop it. Then as the weight started coming on (I have always been really small) we got the Hashi diagnosis in 2007. Meds have never helped 1 way or the other. Then in 2008 terrible personal tragedies happened to me. Well, in 2009 I had my first "panic attack" as I thought were just due to emotions as the er's kept telling me. I have been bed bound (on and off) for almost a year now (countless hypO and hypER symptoms, yet always an elevated TSH) regardless of what meds I take (I have always been a VERY active person). Doc's kept saying it's anxiety due to my PTSD, due to high ferritin levels, HRT's needed, Lyme positive, plus Vitamin D of 5, and most importantly to them my Hashi's. Tried every med for my "hypo" and got more sped up on it. Finally, after many months of begging, got my GP to order a TSI, as I kept feeling I was going through both symptoms...guess what? I have positive TSI and both Thyroid Antibodies.

I am here to learn, and hopefully be able to pay it forward once I fully understand this all and how to really alleviate the misery. Thank you all for being so open and sharing your experiences so people like us don't have to feel so alone in this process.

Well, hi again, can't wait to get to know you!
-CheleRose

[GD Women]

Hi CheleRose - Welcome to the forums.

I am taking anxiety meds. on an as needed bases, however at first I took them everyday for a while, then I was able to wing down to using them whenever I felt I needed them. Have to be very true to they self doing it this way.

We all are different including our thyroid issues. One shoe does not fit all. But we do the best we can and move on with life and it's such a big life too and should not be waisted.

Anyway glad you are here - to learn and to share.

[Andros]

Hi,

Color me sooo happy to find people that aren't going to tell me to just take pills and I will magically feel all better! Wow, such mixed emotions...hate that you all are having these tough things to deal with, but glad that I have others that understand me now. I look forward to meeting you all. I hope as I learn about all of this, I can help others as well on this journey.

I had an oophorectomy in 2002, my heart would not be happy with any kind of hrt so had to stop it. Then as the weight started coming on (I have always been really small) we got the Hashi diagnosis in 2007. Meds have never helped 1 way or the other. Then in 2008 terrible personal tragedies happened to me. Well, in 2009 I had my first "panic attack" as I thought were just due to emotions as the er's kept telling me. I have been bed bound (on and off) for almost a year now (countless hypO and hypER symptoms, yet always an elevated TSH) regardless of what meds I take (I have always been a VERY active person). Doc's kept saying it's anxiety due to my PTSD, due to high ferritin levels, HRT's needed, Lyme positive, plus Vitamin D of 5, and most importantly to them my Hashi's. Tried every med for my "hypo" and got more sped up on it. Finally, after many months of begging, got my GP to order a TSI, as I kept feeling I was going through both symptoms...guess what? I have positive TSI and both Thyroid Antibodies.

I am here to learn, and hopefully be able to pay it forward once I fully understand this all and how to really alleviate the misery. Thank you all for being so open and sharing your experiences so people like us don't have to feel so alone in this process.

Well, hi again, can't wait to get to know you!
-CheleRose

Hi CheleRose and welcome. You know? As I was reading along, I wondered how you came by the diagnosis of Hashi's and whether or not you had TSI lab test.

Yes; with Hashi's you can have TSI.................but; the test for Hashimoto's happens to be FNA of a nodule whereupon if the pathologist finds certain Hurthle cells indigenous to Hashi's, then yes, you have Hashimoto's.

I am of the opinion that you should have a radioactive uptake scan. This will show whether you are hyper/possible Graves' and also to see if you have cancer. Many who are hyper are surprised to find out that it goes with cancer (sometimes.) Repeat..................(sometimes!)_

[hillaryedrn]

Hi there! Don't worry, we all know exactly how you feel!! We're glad you found us! You will get some amazing information and support here! Welcome!

[CheleRose]

-Hi GD Woman, I too am having to take anti anxiety meds, which has helped, I just wish I didn't have to. Thanks for the welcoming, it's nice to meet you!

-Hi Andros, thank you too for the welcome. My TSH as of last week is 10 (fluctuates between 3.5-10.5 depending on its mood, not meds), Free T4 and Free T3 is always low end of normal (on meds or not, that always stays the same). Originally I tested High (and only tested for) TPO and Antithyroglobulin (however, last weeks results showed a big decrease in those for some reason, maybe the addition of Vitamin D? or maybe a raise in TSI). So based on those results I was originally diagnosed Hashimoto's. About 7 months ago I got an ultrasound that stated, "Left lobe of thyroid not appreciated, most likely congenitally absent. Right lobe average in size, displays heterogeneous echotexture with increased vascularity especially in its lower pole. No dominat nodule. Suspicious for Hashimoto's thyroiditis." Well, levo meds never worked on me, had no effect on TSH, and I feel HypER on them (guess what new endo just prescribed again?). Finally begged my doc enough for him to finally give me the TSI and he was shocked when it came up as 180. At least he was honest and said, he has no idea what to do with me and meds. I am on a hunt for a good endo who understands the working of all of this. No one has recommended an uptake to me before. Please don't worry, the C word doesn't scare me, I have been through it before (uterine). I didn't know about the FNA being the definitive, thank you for that info.

-Hi Hillaryedrn, thank you, I can tell already! I look forward to getting to know you all.

-CheleRose

[Phoenix]

Hi Chelerose,

I'm sorry you are having so many problems, and there are a few people that have both Hashimoto's and Graves' at the same time. It is very frustrating to treat from what I understand. I have a friend that wnt through something very similar. She eventually had surgery to remove her thyroid. Even then, it took her a while to get stable on meds, but things are looking up for her now.

I hope they can find a solution for you, so you can get back to feeling well and living life to the fullest.

Welcome to the family

hugs2

Phoenix

[CheleRose]

Hi Phoenix,

Thanks for the kind words. I would love to do the same as your friend, however, I seem to be losing glands like crazy at such an early age (39)....scared of which one would be next to go out :scared0015:

I can't wait to learn from the other Hashi Graves people out there, I have yet to find one I know personally.

I look forward to getting to know you, and thanks again.
-CheleRose

[Andros]

-Hi GD Woman, I too am having to take anti anxiety meds, which has helped, I just wish I didn't have to. Thanks for the welcoming, it's nice to meet you!

-Hi Andros, thank you too for the welcome. My TSH as of last week is 10 (fluctuates between 3.5-10.5 depending on its mood, not meds), Free T4 and Free T3 is always low end of normal (on meds or not, that always stays the same). Originally I tested High (and only tested for) TPO and Antithyroglobulin (however, last weeks results showed a big decrease in those for some reason, maybe the addition of Vitamin D? or maybe a raise in TSI). So based on those results I was originally diagnosed Hashimoto's. About 7 months ago I got an ultrasound that stated, "Left lobe of thyroid not appreciated, most likely congenitally absent. Right lobe average in size, displays heterogeneous echotexture with increased vascularity especially in its lower pole. No dominat nodule. Suspicious for Hashimoto's thyroiditis." Well, levo meds never worked on me, had no effect on TSH, and I feel HypER on them (guess what new endo just prescribed again?). Finally begged my doc enough for him to finally give me the TSI and he was shocked when it came up as 180. At least he was honest and said, he has no idea what to do with me and meds. I am on a hunt for a good endo who understands the working of all of this. No one has recommended an uptake to me before. Please don't worry, the C word doesn't scare me, I have been through it before (uterine). I didn't know about the FNA being the definitive, thank you for that info.

-Hi Hillaryedrn, thank you, I can tell already! I look forward to getting to know you all.

-CheleRose

Now I recommend an uptake scan. Sonogram does not get everything. You have vascularity and other notable irregularities. Sorry your doc does not know what to do but some of us here do. LOL!!

Anyway, please request that.

Here is info on sono.

Ultra-sound limitations http://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info.cfm?pg=us-thyroid

[CheleRose]

Hi Andros,

Thank you, I will leave a message for doc now...may take some pushing, but I so thank you for the information. Is that uncommon for Hashi's??? When I did a google search for exactly what it said on the US, it kept coming up with Graves...strange huh? I am trying to figure out what's the "normal course" for Hashi's and what isn't.

Can I just say again, how thankful I am to have found you all! Hope of ever feeling better was fading fast,I felt so alone, and you all are giving me hope again! Thank you.
-CheleRose

[Phoenix]

Hi Chele,

I have lost several parts myself. At 34, I had my gall bladder out. At 35, I had a complete hysterectomy, and at 42, I had my tonsils out (long story, but my pediatrition wouldn't take them out when I was 10). :rolleyes:

I think you will find a lot of us with thyroid issues wind up having multiple surgeries. And the gall bladder seems to be a common theme.

I can say, that I haven't missed anything they have removed yet though, and I am much less painful without them.

Phoenix

[Andros]

Hi Andros,

Thank you, I will leave a message for doc now...may take some pushing, but I so thank you for the information. Is that uncommon for Hashi's??? When I did a google search for exactly what it said on the US, it kept coming up with Graves...strange huh? I am trying to figure out what's the "normal course" for Hashi's and what isn't.

Can I just say again, how thankful I am to have found you all! Hope of ever feeling better was fading fast,I felt so alone, and you all are giving me hope again! Thank you.
-CheleRose

The criteria for Graves' is exophthalmos, goiter, pre-tibial myxedema and thryotoxicosis as per Dr. Robert Graves'. You can Google him.

We are thankful to have you.

[CheleRose]

Wow Phoenix, you are impressive! I am sooo sorry you had to go through all of those. Ok, well I have to say...I MISS those ovaries a lot. Was happy as could be when they took the uterus though :D Kind of scared about losing the thyroid :( Thank you for letting me know I am not alone :)

Andros, thank you. I think I might have the antibodies and symptoms based on the Hashi??? Endo won't do the uptake. I have appointment with primary doc on Tues. I'll see what he says and keep you posted. Thank you again!

[Andros]

Wow Phoenix, you are impressive! I am sooo sorry you had to go through all of those. Ok, well I have to say...I MISS those ovaries a lot. Was happy as could be when they took the uterus though :D Kind of scared about losing the thyroid :( Thank you for letting me know I am not alone :)

Andros, thank you. I think I might have the antibodies and symptoms based on the Hashi??? Endo won't do the uptake. I have appointment with primary doc on Tues. I'll see what he says and keep you posted. Thank you again!

Re the uptake; start screaming cancer. You "will" get some action. Tell them you will hold them liable. Geez!!! Did endo say why he/she won't order an uptake?

[Phoenix]

I agree, if you keep bugging them about it, they will eventually do it to shut you up. :evilgrin0010:

An uptake scan is routine for some doctors when diagnosing thyroid diseases... so I don't understand why your doctor refuses.

Phoenix

[CheleRose]

Hi, I was having a tough time loggin in, sorry for the delay in my reply. My endo said I am clearly going hypo, that from my first ultrasound in 07 where everything was just fine (homogeneous echotexture) to my ultrasound now where it shows the heterogenous echotexture and the little bit of actual shrinkage in size, not enlargment (which is funny since if feels and looks bigger) that it is classic of Hashimoto's and that it's not uncommon for Hashi patients to turn up with positive TSI and hyper symptoms on occasion and to just take the levoxyl and beta blockers when needed. Arghhh. Tuesday I see my primary dr. so he and I are going to talk about all options. I know at least I can get another ultrasound to watch the progress of shrinkage and changes...do you think that would be enough? I wish this darn thing would hurry up and die then...I am bed bound again with hypER symptoms this week...this new depersonalization I get is off the charts too for some reason.
Thanks so much again,
CheleRose

[nasdaqphil]

Hi CheleRose and welcome.

You and I are thyroid twins. I too have "hashi's" but also tested positive for TSI (180 as well), tested multiple times. I too am 39 years old. I too have low Free T4 and high TSH and always feel hyper and am always physically hot, like 99.6 degrees and have a very fast resting heart rate most of the time, around 104 beats per minute most days. I am 100% convinced the TSI runs the show. I went into a remission about 3 years ago where my TSI dropped to like 25 which is really low and I felt wonderful for about 6 months and then the crap started again. Sure enough TSI was back up in the 170's.

I get shaky and jittery feeling all the time, lots of leg weakness and anxiety too. The hypo stuff doesn't bother me too much as its not long before I toggle back to hyper land. Hyper DOES bother me a lot. I get heart palps frequently. In between going from hyper to hypo there is usually a day or two of equilibrium where I feel almost normal before the heart palps and crap start up once again.

By the way, if you're waiting for that sucker to die on its own, forget about it. I've been dealing with mine, waiting for it to die, for 8 years now. These thyroid are resilient little boogers. I am just now finally pushing to get it yanked out. Me and my thyroid have mentally parted ways already. I already spoke to a surgeon and have a (hopefully) final endo visit before I yank this sucker out.

I too tried meds and they do nothing for me but make me feel like Im having a heart attack. You're not alone there. I also have anti-anxiety meds and beta blockers but I try not to take them - I hate meds in general.

I will hopefully have my thyroid gone by the end of June. I can let you know after if it was the right choice after years and years of wasted life basically. I don't want to get you down in the dumps but in my opinion, there's no real way to treat this other than killing the gland or yanking it out. How do you take meds when your thyroid pumps out thyroid on its own sporadically? It's insane to think we'll ever be regulated correctly when the gland itself is out of control. My docs say the same thing...sure, no problem! Take Synthroid, adjust my dose as I feel shitty or well, take Xanax to control hyper and pray that the Synthroid (which takes a few weeks to kick in) is at the right dose for the given day 2 weeks after the fact. It's insane, really. I've done my time feeling like crap. Having no thyroid at all and finally being regulated properly with meds has got to be better than this.

[Andros]

Hi CheleRose and welcome.

You and I are thyroid twins. I too have "hashi's" but also tested positive for TSI (180 as well), tested multiple times. I too am 39 years old. I too have low Free T4 and high TSH and always feel hyper and am always physically hot, like 99.6 degrees and have a very fast resting heart rate most of the time, around 104 beats per minute most days. I am 100% convinced the TSI runs the show. I went into a remission about 3 years ago where my TSI dropped to like 25 which is really low and I felt wonderful for about 6 months and then the crap started again. Sure enough TSI was back up in the 170's.

I get shaky and jittery feeling all the time, lots of leg weakness and anxiety too. The hypo stuff doesn't bother me too much as its not long before I toggle back to hyper land. Hyper DOES bother me a lot. I get heart palps frequently. In between going from hyper to hypo there is usually a day or two of equilibrium where I feel almost normal before the heart palps and crap start up once again.

By the way, if you're waiting for that sucker to die on its own, forget about it. I've been dealing with mine, waiting for it to die, for 8 years now. These thyroid are resilient little boogers. I am just now finally pushing to get it yanked out. Me and my thyroid have mentally parted ways already. I already spoke to a surgeon and have a (hopefully) final endo visit before I yank this sucker out.

I too tried meds and they do nothing for me but make me feel like Im having a heart attack. You're not alone there. I also have anti-anxiety meds and beta blockers but I try not to take them - I hate meds in general.

I will hopefully have my thyroid gone by the end of June. I can let you know after if it was the right choice after years and years of wasted life basically. I don't want to get you down in the dumps but in my opinion, there's no real way to treat this other than killing the gland or yanking it out. How do you take meds when your thyroid pumps out thyroid on its own sporadically? It's insane to think we'll ever be regulated correctly when the gland itself is out of control. My docs say the same thing...sure, no problem! Take Synthroid, adjust my dose as I feel shitty or well, take Xanax to control hyper and pray that the Synthroid (which takes a few weeks to kick in) is at the right dose for the given day 2 weeks after the fact. It's insane, really. I've done my time feeling like crap. Having no thyroid at all and finally being regulated properly with meds has got to be better than this.

Whoooooooooooooooooooohoo!!!explode

[Andros]

Hi, I was having a tough time loggin in, sorry for the delay in my reply. My endo said I am clearly going hypo, that from my first ultrasound in 07 where everything was just fine (homogeneous echotexture) to my ultrasound now where it shows the heterogenous echotexture and the little bit of actual shrinkage in size, not enlargment (which is funny since if feels and looks bigger) that it is classic of Hashimoto's and that it's not uncommon for Hashi patients to turn up with positive TSI and hyper symptoms on occasion and to just take the levoxyl and beta blockers when needed. Arghhh. Tuesday I see my primary dr. so he and I are going to talk about all options. I know at least I can get another ultrasound to watch the progress of shrinkage and changes...do you think that would be enough? I wish this darn thing would hurry up and die then...I am bed bound again with hypER symptoms this week...this new depersonalization I get is off the charts too for some reason.
Thanks so much again,
CheleRose

I still think you need an uptake scan.

It is true. TSI is "responsible" for hyperthyroid in the majority of cases. So, you could have any of the following and that does include cancer which is why I am urging the RAIU.

There are several types of hyperthyroidism, each associated with a different particular cause. The most common type is Graves' disease (also called diffuse toxic goiter), which is possibly a genetically linked disease, caused by antibodies in the blood which stimulate the thyroid to grow and produce excess hormone. Other causes of hyperthyroidism include toxic multinodular goiter, in which individual thyroid nodule(s) are responsible for excess thyroid hormone production, a thyroid adenoma (a nodule within the thyroid gland) that takes control and overproduces thyroid hormone, and thyroiditis (inflammation of the thyroid), a self limiting disease which is possibly caused by an infection and is often associated early on with an increased release of thyroid hormone. Other rare causes include excess dietary iodine consumption, overactive metastatic thyroid cancer, or rare diseases of the ovary or testicles that can cause the thyroid to be over-stimulated. Some cases of hyperthyroidism are caused by overdoses of thyroid hormone pills, either accidental or intentional because a patient thinks it will help them lose weight (a dangerous misunderstanding since taking too much thyroid hormone can be dangerous and life threatening.)

http://www.cumc.columbia.edu/dept/thyroid/hyperthyroidism.html

[CheleRose]

Wow nasdaqphil my brother from another mother, I am so sorry you have had to go through this. I actually read your private message before this one, so please disregard some questions I asked you on it :) Yay for finally taking that thing out. My docs have said we are just waiting for it to die, well why on earth should I be "living" like this through it though? Geeezzzz if my gallbladder is causing pain they have no problem taking that out, but this sucker that we do have replacement meds for they are so stubborn even when they say "it's dying". Ok, now if you tell me your bday is in July then I have some questions for my mother :) I will let you know what dr. says on Tues about the iron. Have you had an ultrasound of your liver? You should really do so if you haven't with your ferritin high. Anyone else have elevated ferritin levels?

Andros, thank you once again, I am going to have a heart to heart with doc on Tues. also reciting others' experiences from here. Will you be my doc :) I constantly feel like I am having to teach them about this stuff...ggeeessshhh. Thank you for teaching me.

[Andros]

Wow nasdaqphil my brother from another mother, I am so sorry you have had to go through this. I actually read your private message before this one, so please disregard some questions I asked you on it :) Yay for finally taking that thing out. My docs have said we are just waiting for it to die, well why on earth should I be "living" like this through it though? Geeezzzz if my gallbladder is causing pain they have no problem taking that out, but this sucker that we do have replacement meds for they are so stubborn even when they say "it's dying". Ok, now if you tell me your bday is in July then I have some questions for my mother :) I will let you know what dr. says on Tues about the iron. Have you had an ultrasound of your liver? You should really do so if you haven't with your ferritin high. Anyone else have elevated ferritin levels?

Andros, thank you once again, I am going to have a heart to heart with doc on Tues. also reciting others' experiences from here. Will you be my doc :) I constantly feel like I am having to teach them about this stuff...ggeeessshhh. Thank you for teaching me.

It is I who must thank you!!! I love to teach. I should have been one! LOL!! And you are a very very good student who is going to graduate Summa *** Laude and go on to be the best teacher herself.

Go kick some butt!! Ha, ha!:tongue0015:

[CheleRose]

I will, and thanks for a boot to do it with :)

[Lovlkn]

I will hopefully have my thyroid gone by the end of June. I can let you know after if it was the right choice after years and years of wasted life basically. I don't want to get you down in the dumps but in my opinion, there's no real way to treat this other than killing the gland or yanking it out. How do you take meds when your thyroid pumps out thyroid on its own sporadically? It's insane to think we'll ever be regulated correctly when the gland itself is out of control. My docs say the same thing...sure, no problem! Take Synthroid, adjust my dose as I feel shitty or well, take Xanax to control hyper and pray that the Synthroid (which takes a few weeks to kick in) is at the right dose for the given day 2 weeks after the fact. It's insane, really. I've done my time feeling like crap. Having no thyroid at all and finally being regulated properly with meds has got to be better than this.

It is much better - Phil... June, I am very happy for you!

Key is proper replacement and making sure your conversion is happening with the T-4 replacement med's.

[nasdaqphil]

Hey, as admin and founder of the boards, maybe I'll sacrifice my neck for the good of all involved and video tape the entire experience from start to finish. Wouldn't that be cool?

My luck I code right there on the table and end up filming my demise. The video goes viral and some porn producer ends up making millions selling my video online. Wouldn't surprise me. :)

[CheleRose]

OK, no coding allowed! Now, uummmm if a porn producer is selling your tape, I think then that wouldn't be your thyroid they would be doing the surgery on :tongue0015:

Now with your Hashi's and high TSI along with your tough time with meds, would you also need RAI after surgery to make sure the antibodies don't try to attack anything left? I have read that rarely some people still deal with the meds ( not only the dosing problem, but also the same stuff we go through now to a lesser degree) issue because surgery still leaves a lil bit of thyroid. Is that wrong? Just trying to make sure all of your bases are covered. :)

[nasdaqphil]

Naa RAI is usually only administered after a thyroidectomy IF cancer was either found or suspected. All RAI does after t-ectomy is kill any teenie tiny remaining thyroid cells the surgeon might have missed when he took out the gland. If there's no cancer found or suspected, there is no need for RAI afterwards because the amount of actual thyroid tissue you have left is next to nothing - certainly not enough to bother you and if the antibodies don't have anything to attack, they cant do much damage.

With cancer however, even teenie tiny bits of thyroid cancer cells can multiply so they give you RAI after to zap those suckers.

It also depends on the type of surgery one has. Its very common to get a lobectomy where they only take out half a thyroid or piece. That leaves the other half for the antibodies to attack and have fun with. Sometimes it happens years after the initial surgery. Any surgeon worth his license would make a judgment call while your on the table as to take the entire gland or leave some of it. Usually they leave half if you've got a nodule or something. They take the half with the nodule and assume the other half is healthy. In this case, sometimes that other half has hashi's and gives the patient trouble later in life.

[CheleRose]

Oh that's good to know, you sure do know your stuff! I still have sooo much to learn and you all are great teachers. I have learned more in the past couple of days on here from you all than I have from the last year with my docs!
-CheleRose

[Lovlkn]

OK, no coding allowed! Now, uummmm if a porn producer is selling your tape, I think then that wouldn't be your thyroid they would be doing the surgery on :tongue0015:

Now with your Hashi's and high TSI along with your tough time with meds, would you also need RAI after surgery to make sure the antibodies don't try to attack anything left? I have read that rarely some people still deal with the meds ( not only the dosing problem, but also the same stuff we go through now to a lesser degree) issue because surgery still leaves a lil bit of thyroid. Is that wrong? Just trying to make sure all of your bases are covered. :)

RAI does not kill the antibodies but would probably kill any remaining tissue but I doubt a doctor would administer both nor would an insurance company pay for both if cancer is not involved.

Supposedly antibodies only live 3 months but I was told that the antibodies involved with thyroid illness are made in places other than the thyroid as well so as long as the disease process is active a person will have antibodies. When the thyroid is one they have nothing to attack although I and several others think they still have a slight effect on replacement dosing. I for one have antibodies that continue to make my TSI disappear with completely normal and well within range FT-4 and FT-3 and am extremely lucky to have found a GP who is willing to ignore the TSH. It took me switching doctors for the first 5 years because the first two got nervous about the lack of TSH after a year or so but if you keep looking you are likely to find another doc who will work with you for proper replacement.

End point is... even with antibodies quality of life without a thyroid almost always improves.

[Andros]

Hey, as admin and founder of the boards, maybe I'll sacrifice my neck for the good of all involved and video tape the entire experience from start to finish. Wouldn't that be cool?

My luck I code right there on the table and end up filming my demise. The video goes viral and some porn producer ends up making millions selling my video online. Wouldn't surprise me. :)

I am so glad to have a guy as Admin/owner of this board. You truly are a barrel of laugh's from the male perspective.

Demise is a good word. ROLF!!

[nasdaqphil]

Yeah, my big mouth, raw dialect and twisted sense of humor did wonders for me in high school. Me and the dean were quite close after 4 years.

[Andros]

Yeah, my big mouth, raw dialect and twisted sense of humor did wonders for me in high school. Me and the dean were quite close after 4 years.

I'll just bet!!!:evilgrin0036: