Thyroid Disease Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Any help/advice appreciated with regards to more tests, recommended supplements etc. I'll list my labs, symptoms, some history and some meds.

My history prior to Feb 2014 is that I was mainly concerned about heart disease, as I have had several stents put in to open up blockage. Here are some stats/labs from that time period if this is any help.

· Weight - 355lb,

· Lipoprotein (a) - 1 mg/dl,

· CRP - 1.55 mg/dl

· Homocystene plasma - 10 umol/l

· Fibrinogen activity - 325 mg/dl

· Serum Ferratin - 324 mg/dl

I started a ketogenic diet and after being about a month on a ketogenic diet I was dropping weight about 5 lbs a week. And heart markers above improved. I decided for cost reasons only to re-measure CRP and Ferratin since they were the only ones that were high. I also decided to start measuring fasting insulin values. Here are those values along with TSH. My doctor told me I needed that test in order to keep prescribing synthroid and not being able to tell if synthroid did anything or knowing anything about it I agreed.

Here are those labs say March 2014:

· CRP - 0.32,

· TSH - 4.61,

· Insulin - 48

· Serum Ferratin - 34 mg/dl (I gave blood and took IP6 to get that number down and get my blood viscocity down which was high based on a blood viscocity test which was rather expensive and I have not yet repeated as of yet)

The weight loss was great at about 20 to 25 lbs in the first month. I continued with the synthroid since the doctor told me my TSH was high. But the other heart markers had improved as had HDL and my triglecerides were also good. The doctor had wanted me to up my synthroid dose (I'm gonna call it T4 from here on out) to 100 but I decided I didn't want that and broke it in half and then later we went back to 50mcg. (no reason at the time other than that violated my ultimate goal of trying to get off everything.)

By the way my meds at this time were:

· Lopressor - 50 mg 2x a day

· Losartan -

· Levothyroxine - 50 mcg

· Baby aspirin

· Plavix

· Valium - as needed for anxiety.

It was difficult to wean myself off any meds, as it seemed to promote anxiety and/or higher blood pressure than I wanted. I thought I had unraveled the mystery finally by taking myself off the T4 first then that seemed to allow me to go off the Losartan and still keep my BP normal. The Lopressor was another story. When I tried to go off that I may have done it to fast. It promoted anxiety and as I later understood Lospressor can dampen cortisol. I don't know but wherever I read that -- it recommended going off Lopressor real slow. Losartan as I understand it, helps expand the blood vessels. As a beta blocker, I thought all Lopressor did was slow the heart down a bit but since it also dampens the cortisol response then going off it may have induced a double whammy. Cutting back on Lopressor may have tightened blood vessels in addition to speeding up the pulse.

To sum up the above paragraph - I went off T4 and losartan for about three months and am still off them. Everything seemed more or less fine except for occasional bouts of anxiety and heart palpitations that could have been caused by me feeling good and overdoing it or maybe even overeating a little or both. (By the way no caffeine or alcohol since I started the diet either. and obviously no grains sugar i.e., typical ketogenic or very low carb diet with very moderate protein intake) So my meds the last 2 to 3 months have been only:

· Lopressor - 50 mg 2x a day

· Baby aspirin

· Plavix

· Valium - as needed for anxiety.

I should mention that over the years doctors have prescribed synthroid and testosterone. They always told me it would help with weight loss but it never did. I likely have low T. I quit the testosterone when I heard it might cause heart problems some months prior to this diet. As far back as 2007 I can remember when I was first prescribed testosterone I remember it helping with brain fog. It really helped with mental clarity at work and was almost necessary to function. However the keto diet did just as well if not better in the mental fog department.

So fast forward to, October 2014, and I've lost about 90 lbs. My current weight is 265. During that time the exercise has been almost exclusively walking - I never raise my pulse above 110 with exercise on purpose. My pulse can go as low as the 70's or even 60's when I'm relaxed and have previously exercised and go as high as 135 with anxiety and nothing else. The exercise is either walking or elliptical and lately sauna.

I was feeling pretty good but recently started having more frequent palpitations and anxiety. Here are my current thyroid labs that I got on my own after reading the book Stop the thyroid madness along with some other misc. labs. When I have an anxiety attack it usually takes 3 or 4 days of Valium to get over it with much less walking than normal. Very low calories in addition to the normal VLC keto diet seems to help get over anxiety as well. I try and take as little valium as needed by breaking it up into little chunks sometimes as small as 1/6 of the 10 mg pill. I am positive cheese bothers me. I gave up milk 15 years ago but still liked cheese and sour cream. I have decided to give that up and let it clear my system.

· Weight - 265 (still too high got more to go)

· Body fat - 35% (was 45% when I started at 355 but needs to be below 25%)

· Insulin - 3.9 (has dropped dramatically over the course of the diet)

· Hemoglobin A1c - 4.9 % (this was slightly off their chart low but I'm pretty sure that's a good thing and due to sugar and grain elimination)

· Magnesium RBC - 5.1 (I read CD's book and supplement mag a lot mostly magnesium chloride transdermal but I still haven't been able to get this above 6 as I believe she recommends)

So finally with the general history out of the way here are the recent (October 2014) thyroid results:

· TSH - 14.04 uiu/ml (reference range is 4.5) ( this seems shockingly high - maybe I shouldn't have stopped T4 but I felt fine for quite a while )

· Thyroxine (T4) ug/dl (reference is 4.5 thru 12.0 ) ( this is slightly low)

· T3 Uptake - 38% (reference is 24 thru 39)

· Thyroxine (T4) Free Direct - 1.12 ng/dl (reference 0.82 thru 1.77)

· Reverse T3 serum - 15.3 ng/dl (reference is 9.2 thru 24.1)

· Triiodiothyronine, Free, Serum 2.3 pg/ml (2.0 thru 4.4)

I take a lot of supplements here's a list of what I usually take in no particular order: Cinnamon, turmeric, garlic, multi mineral, pantothenic acid, lysine glutamine, nattokinaise, inositol, b-complex, 5-htp, gaba, Hawthorne berry, biotin, milk thistle, d3, ginger root, fiber plus, green superfood, collagen, coconut oil, cod liver oil, flax oil, resveratrol, coq10, SAMe, (just started that one) , niacin, tyrosine, citruline, arginine, magnesium (both oral and transdermal) pregnenolone, ashwaganda root, dhea and take melatonin every night.

I bought recently the following: licorice root, adrenal glandular by Nutricology and raw thyroid glandular by Natural Sources. Are these equivalent to Armour? I bought these without a prescription. I have been to chicken to try any of these so far because I'm afraid they might amp me up. (I really don't like being amped up anymore - used to be a caffeineaholic but no more no more - not a drop since February 2014)

Here's a list of symptoms I have: anxiety, palpitations, I'd have high blood pressure if I weren't on meds and even then when anxiety hits it can get up to around 160/110 and during the course of the diet I have gotten it as low as 90/60 when I'm feeling really relaxed anyway and combine that with deep breathing exercises, somewhat dry loose skin (could be from weight loss tho), gas and bloating, occasional diarrhea, have a tendency for higher blood pressure in the morning, noticed hair thinning when I went off the T4 at first but that seems to have reversed somewhat and improved with collagen supplementation, wake frequently in night but do drink lots of water, (have used a cpap now for 13 yrs now), tend to wake up too early in morning -- often have to do deep breathing exercises to calm down and get back to sleep, still I feel best after sleeping provided I take the time to calm myself down from initial wake up, no real trouble getting to sleep initially or after peeing in middle of night only when its 3 to 5 in morning, have low back pain & shoulder pain, I see chiropractor and recently got a massage and the girl said my back was all knotted up, blood pressure normally rises some during a long walk then drops lower than it was before however recently in anxiety mode even a short walk will stimulate high blood pressure and palpitations and high pulse, occasional depression and mental fog (although the ketogenic diet does seem to increase mental acuity so there's some offset), I tend to oscillate back and forth between optimistic and feeling good then to feeling bad and depressed and lately that has been in the same day. Am mostly in ketosis however anxiety tends to knock me out of it -- as evidenced by the ketostix pee strips anyway. Body temp in the morning is always about 97.2 -- the range is about 97 to 98.

Weight loss has plateaued recently as well. This may be natural as there is less there to loose but it seems like the more relaxed i am the easier it is to lose weight. The weight loss is great but my primary concern is feeling good. I think they both go together though.

Any ideas/suggestions? I just want to learn more about this and I really really want to feel good again. I don't plan on rushing in and trying something without researching it but any ideas are appreciated. After I learn a little more about this I plan on doing a consult with someone maybe the author of STTM 2, which I read recently but fairly quickly. Right now I'm not sure I know enough to even ask intelligent questions. I've also read somewhere that maybe you should fix the adrenal first. Is this true? Thanks in advance for any advice
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
correction - left a number out.

Thyroxine (T4) 4.2 ug/dl (reference is 4.5 thru 12.0 ) ( this is slightly low)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
202 Posts
Your FT3 and FT4 are both low. You will probably feel best if these numbers improve to 50-75% of range. Adrenals and thyroid often go hand in hand. I'd get a cortisol saliva test as well.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,065 Posts
What did your thyroid labs look like when you were on the 50 of levo?

My thoughts are:

1) Holy monkey, that's a ton of supplements. And holy monkey, you've got a lot of moving pieces. My advise is to sit down with someone who really understands herbs and supplements AND prescription meds to help you sort out what is really needed. Herbs can have an impact on thyroid function, but it's really hard to tease out what is what when you are taking so many.

2) Have you ever had your antibodies run? Why were you put on levo in the first place?

3) Generally speaking, once you are on thyroid meds, you really should get off them.

4) Have you ever had a thyroid ultrasound.

5) Do not take non-prescription thyroid meds. You are already making for a very confusing situation with all the meds, supplements and dietary changes. No need to add more mud to the pie.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lovlkn

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
19,367 Posts
men more likely to have cancer than women
http://www.umm.edu/endocrin/thytum.htm
(Copy and paste into your browser)

SUGGESTED TESTS
TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin and Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/
(Copy and paste into your browser)

TSI
Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism.
http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroid-antibodies/tab/test
(Copy and paste into your browser)

Trab
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684583
(Copy and paste into your browser)

T3 Uptake test
http://www.drstandley.com/labvalues_thyroid.shtml (high, hyper---low, hypo)
(Copy and paste into your browser)

The T3 uptake explained.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003688.htm

Welcome, John! You came here prepared, I see! LHM!!

According to your T3 uptake, you could be hyper; believe that or not. Weight was a huge issue for me when I was hyper; I got very heavy no matter what I did.

That said, consider getting some antibodies' tests to sort the wheat from the chaff and I strongly suggest an ultra-sound of the thyroid as well.

The "thing" with these antibodies is that there are binding, blocking and stimulating antibodies which attack the receptor sites and they in turn make the regular thyroid panel look like something it is not.

Clearly you are in the ring fighting for your quality of life and truly, you should not have to work so hard at this. You need proper diagnosis and medical intervention.

And what is the range for that ferritin; would you know?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Your FT3 and FT4 are both low. You will probably feel best if these numbers improve to 50-75% of range. Adrenals and thyroid often go hand in hand. I'd get a cortisol saliva test as well.
thanks wow some quick replies much appreciated.

so FT3 for example is 2.3 and within the range 2.0 - 4.4 listed on my lab you're saying maybe it should be above 3.

likewise my FT4 of 1.12 would better up around say 1.3 or so.

just making sure i understand and i am shopping around for a cortisol test and i guess i'll learn how to read that later.

any opinions on the high TSH? my TSH as someone else had asked was 4.61 and then it jumped up to 14.04.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What did your thyroid labs look like when you were on the 50 of levo?

My thoughts are:

1) Holy monkey, that's a ton of supplements. And holy monkey, you've got a lot of moving pieces. My advise is to sit down with someone who really understands herbs and supplements AND prescription meds to help you sort out what is really needed. Herbs can have an impact on thyroid function, but it's really hard to tease out what is what when you are taking so many.

2) Have you ever had your antibodies run? Why were you put on levo in the first place?

3) Generally speaking, once you are on thyroid meds, you really should get off them.

4) Have you ever had a thyroid ultrasound.

5) Do not take non-prescription thyroid meds. You are already making for a very confusing situation with all the meds, supplements and dietary changes. No need to add more mud to the pie.
yeah that was 4.61 slightly beyond the ref range and now its 14.04.

1. agreed

2. don't guess so. i'll look into that. i think put on levo cause tsh guidelines allowed it. if your over they just put you on it i guess. i was put on it years ago and can't say i really stuck with it. these past several yrs however i really stuck with it until i decided to dump it a few months ago.

3. do you mean "generally speaking once on thyroid meds you shouldn't go OFF them"

4. i dont recall I've had ultrasounds but they all came back negative i guess. there is never much explanation. do you think i should have one?

again thanks for your comments
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
men more likely to have cancer than women
http://www.umm.edu/endocrin/thytum.htm
(Copy and paste into your browser)

SUGGESTED TESTS
TPO (antimicrosomal antibodies) TBII (thyrotropin-binding inhibitory immunoglobulin), Thyroglobulin and Thyroglobulin Ab, ANA (antinuclear antibodies), (thyroid hormone panel) TSH, Free T3, Free T4.

You can look this stuff up here and more.........
http://www.labtestsonline.org/
(Copy and paste into your browser)

TSI
Normally, there is no TSI in the blood. If TSI is found in the blood, this indicates that the thyroid stimulating immunoglobulin is the cause of the of a person's hyperthyroidism.
http://labtestsonline.org/understanding/analytes/thyroid-antibodies/tab/test
(Copy and paste into your browser)

Trab
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684583
(Copy and paste into your browser)

T3 Uptake test
http://www.drstandley.com/labvalues_thyroid.shtml (high, hyper---low, hypo)
(Copy and paste into your browser)

The T3 uptake explained.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003688.htm

Welcome, John! You came here prepared, I see! LHM!!

According to your T3 uptake, you could be hyper; believe that or not. Weight was a huge issue for me when I was hyper; I got very heavy no matter what I did.

That said, consider getting some antibodies' tests to sort the wheat from the chaff and I strongly suggest an ultra-sound of the thyroid as well.

The "thing" with these antibodies is that there are binding, blocking and stimulating antibodies which attack the receptor sites and they in turn make the regular thyroid panel look like something it is not.

Clearly you are in the ring fighting for your quality of life and truly, you should not have to work so hard at this. You need proper diagnosis and medical intervention.

And what is the range for that ferritin; would you know?
thanks andros i'm learning. yes it looks like i have some symptoms of both. the t3 uptake being on the high side indicates hyper but i think the rest indicates hypo.

i will get the antibodies test and it looks like i need an ultra sound.

i don't have ferritin lab handy its on paper somewhere and i transferred it to a spreadsheet but at 324 it was actually in the range however but up near the top. Dr S recommended that that the optimum level be below 90 for men and below 80 if you have heart problems and so thats why i got mine down to 34. i also try and keep my hematocrit between 40 and 45 by giving blood. this relates mainly to blood viscosity which i'm trying to keep down.

my weight started at 355 and is now 265. that was due to the ketogenic diet. i guess i was hoping low insulin levels would up-regulate repair and just fix everything involving thyroid and adrenals but i guess its more complicated than that. i also have no idea what going keto does to the thyroids. I'm sure it has an effect and i believe its tendency is towards hypo or at least hypo lab values. It worked well for weight loss but it may be throwing thyroid out of whack.

There are not many comments on the high TSH.Thats Hypo right? I am beginning to gather that test is not considered very important.

I see lots of talk about it being below the range but people still needing hypo treatment. What about when its way above range like mine?

again much thanks for your comments.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top